The best place to start is with the frames… we have spent a lot of time here – we will post some more pictures, but for now meet the first five tries.
Each of these frame castings are different… and they come from a few different casting houses. One of the Internet rumors that we see is that we are having the “same place that makes frames for Ruger” do our frame castings… they have done some, but the most current castings come from a different supplier.
What you are seeing represents a lot of work… each change to a casting can take a lot of time, but with each change we have made significant improvements to the heart of the pistol – and these changes do no come cheap, what you are looking at in that picture represents a serious investment in this project.
At each step along the way we had hoped we were there, a few times we thought for sure that we were… but there were things that we wanted to do better, so here we are: there are two other frames, the one we are currently using for testing and the newest one from the casting house – not going to say that newest one is the for sure real deal, but it is looking really good.
Next, we’ll round up some slides and show you what has been going on there… or maybe barrels, we have a lot of different barrels to show you…
Thanks for the update. I guess the project isn’t dead after all. I’ll resume setting cash aside for my purchase of SFL and a Viced Standard Model.
So you’re saying that 4+ years into this you MAY have the receiver investment casting sorted out?? Emphasis on MAY!
Scotty from Star Trek used to say that the more complicated you make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
Who-Rah!
I’m underwhelmed!
This is typical Defense Contractor misdirection propaganda. When asked why you’re over budget and grossly behind schedule, you reply with “look what I did and how much it cots me”. Just another lame attempt at damage control via some sort of preemptive strike.
What would impress the hell out of all of us is working gun available at the previously named outlet in a timely manner and on budget. No more dog & pony shows, excuses or finger pointing. Anything else is just chin boogie aimed at the prospective consumer, who, in case you haven’t been keeping up with current events, has had just about enough of the full ration of BS.
Incidentally, I wonder if we’ll hear any more of this rumored “selling the whole 1st run of guns to an offshore entity” and “they may never show up for sale domestically” dung.
Bruce
Moderator-Bren-Ten.com Forum
Frames are nice looking, I just hope they are not a tease! Please by all means carry on with the production of the Bren Tens. looking forward to seeing even more!
What a joke. Go away.
Make a sand castle or something.
Your good at kicking sand in your distributors/customers faces.
You’re joking, this is it? This has been a waste of time.
I look forward to the post about the slides and barrels. It’ll make great reading on my Christmas break.
I always intended to pass my handguns on to my children, but I was hoping I’d get to use them first.
This isn’t just folks bitching at you, these are people who WERE your loyal supporters AND customers who finally gave up on you and this project.
Shouldn’t all of these responses be a clue?
When all is said and done, I’m sure you’ll sell the first run, either to one individual, or to the rest of the gun-buying public, and we’ll be seen as a bunch of whiners, but the fact remains that the damage is quite done, and the folks who stood by you for YEARS will still feel crapped on. Is that how you want your company and this project viewed when the third chapter in the Bren Ten saga is written into the history books?
Good luck and goodbye from someone who was once one of your biggest fans.
Hello from Baghdad, Mesopotamian Theater of Operations…….
Last year, before I left the ROK, I was told, when I asked if I would have one summer 2010 upon return from 3 years of bondage in gun-banned Korea “yes, you can expect to have one upon return to the USA” from one of Vltor’s employees via e-mail. A year and 2 custom Galco Miami Classic Bren Ten holsters (1 for original D&D “viced” Bren Ten, other for my yet to arrive Vltor Bren Ten Vice model) later, still, no Bren Ten from Vltor.
I do not want to see frames. I do not want to see parts. I want to see the product AVAILABLE for PURCHASE and a RELEASE DATE. Specifically, when I get back from Mesopotamia (provided the Persian-backed Shi’ite Terrorists do not IED/EFP/IDF/IRAM my 4th point of contact), I want to be able to waltz into my local gunshop back home in Alabama, and walk out with a new Bren Ten. If not, a new Colt Delta Elite will be the purchase.
Times a wastin’….gun bans via executive order are awating to be signed…make it happen ASAP.
Bren10Man
I have waited just like everyone else, in fact, since 1984, when I was 12 years old, Sonny Crockett was my hero and I dreamed of having a Bren Ten. If this project eventually does happen, I will be very pleased to say that I have waited and the wait was worth it. DO NOT SCRAP this project, I want my VICE Bren.
As long as this long overdo project enables the Bren Ten to become a reality, it’s worth the wait.
I have attempted to convince Tanfoglio for close to a dozen years to reproduce a Bren Ten clone. Tanfoglio past on the idea because of frame issues. Their 10mm steel Witness frames were cracking because of the slide velocity. At the time, I believed the gun would sell very well on State and Federal contracts. I attempted to convince companies like Smith & Wesson, Colt, Kahr, and CZ Europe to reproduce the pistol. None were interested.
I believe Eric Kincel from Vltor really wants to make the Bren Ten happen. Please understand, he working on a very unpopular project with very limited resources. A business fact- If there is a return on investment, a product will be made and sold. This is not possible on a gun with a 30 year old design. Now, State and Federal governments are purchasing polymer frame pistols and not steel ones. The same is true overseas. CZ USA recently came out with a new polymer pistol the P07 Duty. The gun is inexpensive, shoots and handles very well. It is only available in 9mm and 40S&W. If the CZ P07 is marketed and sold correctly, it should sell well in the various government markets.
I believe the Bren Ten could be a successful if it were on a polymer frame. Polymer frames are stronger, lighter, and are more appealing to government markets. With some cleaver engineering and cosmetics a polymer frame could appear to resemble a metal frame. The 1st company i would talk to on making the polymer frames would be Caracal International. http://www.caracal.ae/ They produce polymer frames for many firearm companies like Tanfogilo.
Ask yourself, why “I am passionate about the Bren Ten?” Is it because of Miami Vice and I never grew up? The gun was way ahead of it time but, it is now old technology. It is a Delorean, There is a company actually remaking these cars again. http://www.delorean.com/index-5.html Why? It is not for the money.
Bottom line- The Bren Ten will need to evolve to today’s standards (polymer) or it will be another Delorean.
Sincerely,
Chris Bernhard
cbernhard2000@gmail.com
PS – I am not just a business man, and not an engineer.
We have seen pictures before. And magically they disappeared. Now we see more pictures. How soon before they also disappear?
Vltor has done nothing over the last 4 years but prove itself to be unreliable, dishonest and untrustworthy.
I’d love to see this gun built and on shelves.
But recent history tells me this is more of the same old Vltor, pulling the same old stunts.
A polymer Bren Ten is an oxymoron.
I’m starting to believe that so many things will be left out of this gun that it won’t have the features which made the Bren Ten both unique & clever. At that point, just deep six the project and be done with it. Those who never had a Bren Ten don’t & won’t get it anyway. Understandable but that doesn’t repeal the fact that they are clueless. There’s a lot of that hovering over this anyway!
Probably this page in the Bren Ten saga should fade to black anyway.
Bruce
Bren-Ten.com Forum
“This is not possible on a gun with a 30 year old design.”
You’re full of crap, Chris. The thousands of 1911s and revolvers sold every day attest to that. Uberti and Pietta make a tidy profit every year selling 150 year old black powder designs. If anything Vltor’s mistake has been taking a good design and trying to make it absolutely perfect.
We have been framed!
Well, nice photos. That’s mighty white of you to post them. 4+ years and this is all you got to show? This doesn’t even rise to the level of pathetic. And investment cast, to boot, huh? Absolutely brilliant. You’re going to use cast frames in a 10mm, and not forged? I wouldn’t buy one if it were $10. But, not to worry, there will never be a Bren Ten anyway. What are you going to do, post pictures of the slide in another 4 years? Why can’t you flakes at Vltor just man up and say it’s over with? Why continue with the charade?
Vltor/Eric,
What you’re seeing here is a lot of frustration. This kind of frustration means there’s PASSION behind this gun. That kind of PASSION can turn from ire to love with
proof of progressdelivery. People still want this gun. Everyone bitching at you here and on other websites would PROBABLY (it used to be a DEFINITELY, but some have been pushed too far) still buy one TODAY if they had it in their hands.If you want to keep the following, you need to post more often then every quarter. You need to follow up this posting within 14 days with one showing barrels…. then one within 14 days showing slides… then another showing…
Right now you’ve got no credibility. This posting, by itself, does nothing for you.
Man up. Quit jerking us around.
Americans love the 1911 because is it part of our history and plus it is an amazing gun. I own 9 of them! These 1911 pistols sell very well in the civilian market but, not in the government markets. 1911 pistols sell very well in the civilian market but, not in the government markets. STI who makes a polymer 1911 have attempted to sell in the government market with no success. One can only guess why they have failed at this market. Perhaps, was it the marketing, the salesman, the fact it is a single action only or who knows?
I would rather own a steel frame Bren Ten over polymer one and am sure there are about several hundred people out there who feel the same way. Why would Vltor remake a gun to only sell a few thousand of them at best? There would be no return on investment. This is why, I believe the project has halted. I can assure everyone, the government markets included foreign would not be interested in the steel frame side arm for their troops. Carrying a M9 wrapped in the plastic bag to keep sand out of it sucks!
We have been using the 9mm round because of NATO. Our armed forces have been using the 9mm for long enough to realize it sucks. 9mm SUCKS! Many of the US officers who were in the beginning of Desert Storm are now in more prominent positions and have the same feelings about the 9mm. Most of them have the same feeling about NATO too. Now is the time, to arm our troops with a better side arm, one with more knock down power, one that doesn’t jam if sand gets in the slide, one that offers double and single action options. If the Bren Ten was polymer and chambered in 10mm, 45, 40 S&W and 9mm. I can sell it to state governments, US federal governments, and even foreign governments. Trust me, this is what i do and I do it well.
Chris Bernhard
.
Chris, I agree with you that a plastic framed Bren is far more suitable to government markets than a steel one, but the Bren isn’t a government gun. If Vltor hadn’t erased three years of their own blog postings, you’d be able to read the entries talking about how excited they are about making a gun for the civilian market, how they wanted to make the perfect defensive handgun, how much they adore the Bren Ten fan community, etc.
Lou is right as well. If I had already invested money for a preorder I might be much more angry at Vltor, but to me the only people they’re hurting are themselves. A few years from now I’ll have the money for another carry gun, and if the Bren Ten has been released to favorable reviews and shown no problems, I’ll probably still be willing to buy one. If not, well, there’s still a doublestack 2011 in .45 Super.
Vaporware…
Will the new Bren Ten become known as the Model of 2021?
I want a Bren Ten just like the one I could not get in the 80′s .I have a Plastic 10mm
IT’S CALLED A GLOCK 20 don’t want a plastic Bren Ten.
If I wanted some Euro Trash Junk Gun I would just go buy one and hope for the best while it lasts I also don’t want a rail on it I am not going to put a flashlight ,Laser bayonet , rangefinder , form1 front pistol grip
What I want is a copy of the 1980′s Bren Ten STEEL FRAME in guess what 10MM that I could not get in the 1980′s
will a plastic gun last 100 to 200 years? I know my 1911′s will
I waited as long as I could and since the several years of teasing I have purchased and sold many firearms. I had at one time or the other the money set aside for the ridiculous asking price of the fortis Bren. When I thought the Bren was going to actually be sold, I was turned off by the msrp! However, is it not apparent this pipe dream will never come to fruition???? “The check is in the mail” is all we are getting and sad to say, this Check will never arrive…… Oh, But I digress….. Too bad because there are many of us that really wanted one or two!!!
Yawn………………………………………………………….
Appearently there are a few people who have no patience.Vltor, thank you for trying to get it right ,I;ll wait over here reloading a lot of 10mm brass (168gr.~1250 fps). Two pistols to start,two more for later.
IF YOU TRULY OWN THE RIGHTS TO THE BREN 10 PLEASE SELL THEM TO S&W, RUGER, KIMBER,SPRINGFIELD, OR BETTER YET BACK TOO D&D. D&D MADE IT HAPPEN IN THE 1983. ITS 2011 AND YOU CAN’T NOT DO IT? WHY NOT? PLEASE TELL US WHY NOT! MAYBE YOU SHOULD WORK ON RETURNING TO THE MOON! OR GETTING SUPPLIES TO THE USA 800,000 PLUS WWII TROOPS ALL OVER THE WORLD IN 1943. SOMETHINGS CAN NOT BE DONE AGAIN. LIKE YOUR REMAKE OF THE D&D BREN 10. I WONDER WHAT COMPUTER D&D USED OR CNC TECHNOLOGY? THAY JUST GOT IT DONE. IF NOT FOR THE CLIPS ISSIUE D&D WOULD BE HERE TODAY. OVER 4 YEARS AND YOUR ON THE FRAME! MAYBE GET SOME ONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE ARE DOING. LIKE MICHAEL DIXON OR THOMAS DORNAUS!
Ironically Joel, 168 grains at 1250 fps is almost identical to the PowrBall .45 +P load (165 grains at 1225 fps).
Ironically, if you want real 10mm ballistics they way Jeff Cooper and Norma originally loaded them in the 80′s that proved to be too much for the FBI, check out Double Tap Ammo.
http://www.doubletapammo.com
Bullet : 135gr. Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point.
Ballistics : 1600fps / 767 ft.lbs. – Glock 20
Why all the hate ? I already have a substantial financial investment. I bought 25 10mm witness mags over two years ago and then went to the Shot Show to order the first pistols that Sporting Products sold. The only other order I made at Show didn’t ever get made as of yet either. I’m waiting like everyone else, but besides getting the pistols, I have to worry that they’ll change the mag format. I also have several hundred round of Norma 10mm that go back to 1984.
Lets all hope that the new Bren gets built and keep the negative comments off the sight. If you want negative, I have a close friend that bought $40,000 worth of D&D Stock and prepaid for $6000 in pistols. He got two std. models with no mags for his time and investment. Never got to shoot one back then. I hope Vltor gets it done and these new pistols are durable and can handle the full house loads better than the originals! Keep the comments positve!
Sell the rights to Norinco and they’ll produce it within 6 months. They cloned Tokarev, Cz, Colt, AK, Remington…
6 Months? Norinco could most likely get it done in 45 days!
I guess you cant please some people i dont care how long the wait is I want a gun that will work and last . Eric thanks for the update and keep moving forward dont let the nay sayers bring the project down
Jeff, your comment would have been appropriate in 2009. We’re not the naysayers. We’re the hardcore fanboys. We’re the only ones that care enough about the project to say anything at all.
If the frames crack in 10mm, then make it a .45 ACP.
You showed completed pistols at the Shotshow last year, now we see castings?
Is this a cruel joke on those of us that really want one?
We want a 10mm, the main purpose to having a BREN TEN, hence the name that Cooper bestowed on the pistol in the first place. I love .45ACP, but there’s nothing that comes close to the crack of a 10mm when loaded the right way.
I have to side with the rest of the folks, enough is enough. If you can’t give us an approximate time table and release date, what is the point of even continuing this peep show. I might as well just spend the coin on an original and take my chances with low power loads.
Try to get a Colt Delta Elite its a 1911 and you cant find a new one anywhere. A new Merwin and Hulbert wants a down payment for a gun not yet in production. It is the state of the firearms industry as a whole.
Maybe they can sell the designs to Kel-tec. I see they are coming out with a new 14 round bullpup shotgun. making changes on the fly, based on input from Shot show.
When I saw the picture of the frame castings I had to laugh. Sitting on my desk right now is an original Dornaus & Dixon unfinished cast frame. I picked it up at a gun show, it was the closest I ever got to owning a Bren Ten. Having said that, quality trumps the wait. I’m looking for a Special Forces model in .45 ACP. A quality, overbuilt, all steel, Colt Combat Commander, without a grip safety, and with a Browning High Power grip… Heaven in a holster!
Let’s see…how many parts in a Bren Ten? Revealing them to us at a rate of one every 30-90 days should have this wrapped up around the turn of the decade. With the worldwide shortage of unicorn tears for the required lubricant, it might be longer.
Well, I’m excited to see the thing still being worked on. It may seem like a very long time, but designing a new pistol only happens occasionally, and it takes years of development.
You might think the Bren is an old design, but a new model is a model from scratch. This isn’t another no-name product. This is meant to be an out-of-the-gate success, with no faults. In order to accomplish that, countless variations of parts must be designed, constructed, and tested. One-off castings and small production runs of everything from frames to little pins is NOT easy, and it takes a very long time.
A single pin can take months to get right, only to be defeated by a new frame design.
Vltor is eventually going to release what may just be the most well-sorted handgun in the history of semi-autos.
Vltor made but a single mistake in the entire project. That mistake was letting on that the project was happening to begin with. At the time, it wasn’t a mistake. It should have been a great way to cultivate interest and discussion.
As it turned out, though, problems arose.
People, aha, jumped the gun. The excitement boiled over, and businesses took notice. Many vendors accepted “pre-orders”. That isn’t Vltor’s fault. People threw their money at hopes and dreams far too early. The offending party is the vendor. There is one national vendor that spammed information. Even I received a pre-order offer.
Vltor is carefully tailoring that firearm. This thing is either going to be one of the BEST boutique pistols ever released, or a complete bomb. There will be no in-between this time. No matter how much people curse about it, Vltor flat out refuses to ship a product that isn’t where they want it to be.
Sometimes, you just have to a potential customer to shut up and wait. He will forget all about it in the end, no matter what he thinks now. Even if he doesn’t, there are only a few available, and they will be sold immediately.
Now, I’ve got a deposit out on this firearm. It is NOT a pre-order. I gave my shop money so they could pounce as soon as the pistol is released and hopefully nab one. Because they have that money, they can move without calling me first.
That’s an honest acceptance of money ahead of time. If people are angry, odds are, they gave someone money for nothing at all. That’s ain’t Vltor’s fault. That’s the fault of both a dishonest vendor and the fool who threw the money away without asking enough questions.
Vltor is working on something special. Eventually, when this is released, I believe it will hit the ground running.
I would like to see the gun sooner than later, but I will wait for quality and a design done right the first time. Keep the updates moving at a more regular pace if you can.
Lots of understandable frustration here. People here had expectations which aren’t entirely their fault and are lashing out in disappointment. My money is on the sideline waiting for the day when I can actually get one or two on order.
Military contracts pay $$$’s so I understand they come first. It really would be nice to own a Bren before the economy collapses and I still can.
I’m just sayin’……..
It’s called R&D guys….. they are trying to CORRECT the FRAME weakness of the ORIGINAL gun…. take a chill pill!! If YOU can do better, MAKE ONE!! Until then… sit back and wait… before someone at VLTOR decides to think “F” those whiners!! Sheesh!!
Sirs,
Rather than argue over Steel vs Plastic, may I recommend and alternative? LiquidMetal! It is as light as Titanium and harder than steel. It feels like metal because it is and is better than plastic because it is. Ease of casting (low temp casting) and can be tailored for your needs.
I want to see the Bren Ten rise as well, but I know that you need to sell light weapons for defense needs. People don’t carry 48 ounce Model 29′s around anymore. Imagine a 27 ounce Bren Ten…
Respectfully
GoldBead
Liquidmetal Website: http://www.liquidmetal.com/technology/
The big problem is that Vltor is saying they are doing this and doing that but it’s taking forever for updates to hit the forums. If anything throw some pics in here show us what you are doing good or bad. If youre R&D department is having issues just say so tell us the castings look like crap or youre having problems with the slides. That at least shows the Bren Ten community that you’re trying to work the bugs out and shows that there is some progress either good or bad. That in my opinion is the best way to keep the people interested in idea of someday buying a Bren.
If you cant see the mountains cause of the trees you may question if the mountain is really there.